Anna Schneider
After completing her MBA and a leadership trainee, the daughter of an Austrian founder quickly set out on her career. Most recently, she was HR Regional Director in the hotel industry, responsible for 3 hotels and a regional team. But that wasn’t enough – along the way she developed the idea for founding heynannyly.
Julia Kahle
After almost 15 years and various HR positions in a major corporation, the cut came for the educator, who most recently worked as Head of HR Marketing & Recruiting. As a working mom, she wanted to leave her safety net and start her own business. Together with Anna Schneider, she is passionate about promoting a work-life balance.
heynannyly is a platform start-up for short-term, vetted and insured childcare. Qualified babysitting and homework support for children between 0-14 years including pick-up and drop-off services are intended to really relieve working mothers and fathers. In the view of the two HR experts, there is still a lot of room for improvement, especially in the corporate context. Real benefits to take the pressure off working parents and create a free decision for full-time / part-time and career with kids.
" Just do it with a lot of courage " Anna
" If we can do it, so can you " Julia
Thanks for meeting with me. I’m excited to share your story, not only your career story as I usually do in these series, but also the story behind your start up heynannyly that has the objective to support working parents. Which is of course a huge topic when it comes to advancement of women in leadership roles. So, let’s start with describing your roles. How have you distributed the responsibilities at heynannyly?
Anna: We have split each other up, I search for and speak with nannies, and Julia is the contact person for the parents. And I am the founder of heynannyly.
Anna, how did you come up with this idea?
Anna: I am and have been a babysitter for a long time and speaking with so many parents over the time, I have learned that there is a great need. I then went on a pilgrimage, which gives you a great opportunity to think a lot. And as I have always supported women in their development and their empowerment, and thus started to think about this. Coming back, I started to look for what is available on the market, for babysitters, nannies, if there is any good offering available for young parents and mothers. I did find something, but nothing was really good. I looked at this from the perspective of the babysitter. It is really difficult to find a good offering or platform and as the babysitter you even have to pay for this. So initially I searched from the view of someone that is looking for a side job as a babysitter.
Julia, and you are the contact for the parents, can you describe your role?
Of course, we do a lot together, but we both do not master the technical part, this lies in the responsibility of our CTO. So, I take over the entire communication to the parents, from the texts on our website, or social media messaging, because I fully understand the need. I am in the same position for 10 years, as working mom. Before having moved back to my hometown, close to my parents, before we lived in Wiesbaden and Frankfurt, and this was a complete disaster. To manage a Job, deal with sick children etc, tough even before the pandemic. If something unexpected happens, and that happens a lot with kids, then you have immediately increased stress levels. And so little or no good support. Coming back to how we have split up, Anna is our expert in the numbers, we sometimes say jokingly that she is also the CFO, and I also look after marketing. We do a lot ourselves, but I have a very good network from my previous corporate role, where I headed up employer branding. What we do is not B2C but also B2B. I am very versed in this area as I have done that from the other side previously.
Tell me a little how you started into your professional life; did you have a goal; did you know what you wanted to achieve? Or have a dream?
Anna: no, I only knew that I was good being with people, and loved travels, so the hotel industry sort of came to me, I started with a trainee program and after completion started at the Front Office. Through 3 months stint in Human Resources, I noticed quickly that this is for me. I really loved coming to work in HR. It was just for me.
Julia: I was coming from education and had this overall drive wanting to help people, and during my time at university I discovered that people development is likely what I want to do. I was not keen on a specific industry. Following a trainee program in HR, I did land a job in people development, but I then experienced this to be “too strategic”, too far away from the actual people. I really wanted to have the real exchange and directly wanted to influence something.
In retrospect, what would you say where your career milestones?
Anna: probably the biggest or first turning point or milestone was upon leading a team for the first time, and successfully lead and structure this. And secondly when I further grew into a multi-property role, such as a regional HR Leadership role. I was responsible for 3 Hotels. Another thing that I comes to mind was, I was 25 in my first HR Manager role, and until then everybody said to me that you need to be at least 35 to get a first leadership position. And looking around, it seemed to be true as my colleagues where all around that age. When I was put forward for the HR Manager role, I spoke to the Global Head of HR, who confirmed I could to the job. So, then it was clear to me, that age does not matter.
Julia: To be honest, as I literally fell into my last role as Head of Employer Branding for Germany. My manager at the time left and said to me, Julia you can also do this. My first thought was, oh my, how will I manage. My kids were young. But my past was always very dynamic, took in many projects, was commuting and travelled a lot. Back then I had entirely built the Facebook page and strategy for DB Schenker, in times where I did not even have a personal Facebook account. So, my previous HR said to me, why don’t you do this? Sort of like, “in case you are bored during maternity”. I was very determined to continue my career after maternity and so I thought to jump in and do this. Despite the fact I had no clue how. And fun fact, this Facebook account turned out to be the most successful in Europe… So in hindsight, these are really the things that influenced me and my career the most – just grabbing a chance and do it, even knowing that I had no plan how to do it. Another big influence on me, was my new manager at the time. After a longer time of male leaders, a woman for a change. With board experience, she was my role model in so many areas. She knew what I was capable of and threw me in so many things. During this time, I was exposed to so many projects, so many teams, did work for the board etc. She also showed me the value of a women’s network.
Did you ever experience or had to deal with any (career) obstacles?
Anna: I once worked at a company for 6 months only, but even I was in HR, I basically had no people contact. So maybe not an obstacle, but I came to learn that it depends very much on the company what HR does or how it is positioned. And you must realise what you like about work. But generally speaking, I did come across the topic of age numerous times, and the preconceived notion about age versus experience and career status. I immediately received reactions upon telling someone I was 27.
What an interesting observation. And especially as age is also a dimension of diversity and shows how we can have bias here as well. Which means that others assume that younger people have less experience, yet it is the value and depth of experience that should be in focus. Julia, can you share if you had to overcome any obstacles?
Julia: There were quite a few obstacles, but I can directly relate to age as well. This has also accompanied me as well over the years. To give you an example, a few years ago I attended a huge meeting, together with a young member of my team, the meeting was with logistic managers, all older, only male colleagues, looking for solutions to solve their recruitment problems. I gave my younger colleague the biggest project that was part of the initiative. And the senior project manager tells me, “Ms. Kahle, we need someone more experienced and senior to deal with this”, and this in front of the entire group of male colleagues. My response to him was, “she is the best in my team, and she is very senior to manage this”. Unfortunately, it is a big obstacle, the perception that young age equals incapability, and this is a challenge that many women face. The other obstacle for me was having a family. When I got married, had my first child, I stayed with the company, but I quickly noticed the wind of change in the company towards me. I came back after maternity as parttime to start with, I had good support from the functional leader, the one who gave me the Facebook project at the time, but my direct supervisor gave me the feeling of not needing to come back. And I had some obstacles at home, despite a modern family at home, with a supportive husband. As he had the higher income, my business-related things, also travel was priority B. I always had to juggle. And the entire organization of childcare. A lot of work during the night and a lot of work with kids screaming around you.
Can you elaborate a bit what you meant with “experienced a wind of change” once you returned from maternity?
Julia: As I returned as part-time, I felt I was only valued part-time as well. Responsibility was not the same anymore. No one would say that directly, but you felt it. As an example, when the timing of team meetings was not adjusted to try to accommodate my needs, or not being copied on important emails anymore. And thinking back, my recommendation to others would not take parttime offers for 30 or 35 hours. I did that and basically worked fulltime but got paid less. It is not uncommon that women who work parttime, work much more, as they feel they need to prove everyone and one’s self, that they can manage it all. My learning is definitely work full time and flexible and earn the money you deserve.
Can you share some insights into mentors? Did you have role models; superiors with special influence, and any female role models?
Anna: I never had a real role model or mentor at work, I always felt I had to learn everything myself and could not take enough from others, But I do have a huge role model and that is my father, who has founded 2 companies already. And maybe I inherited his gene to run my own company.
Why do you believe you never identified a role model during your corporate life?
Anna. To be honest I wished to have had one, but never found anyone that could support me, at least not in my area of expertise.
Julia: as I was in the same corporation for 15 years I had so many leaders, I even once left HR as I was internally headhunted to operations, but then went back. Now I would say my last manager, she really is the role model form. She really opened my eyes. Until then I had managers that supported me, were happy with my performance, no complaints at all. I even had the chance to participate in a mentoring program. But no one really inspired me. I caught fire the first time when I reported to the European Manager, also a woman, we had mainly men in leading roles. She was a such temperamental manager, full of energy, a working mother she did not really fit into the image of the usual corporate senior leader. Whether the way she came across, the way she dressed, in many ways she was so unexpected in her leadership style. I really admired her for that, for being so cool, so different. My later manager, a very experienced HR Senior Leader, with a strong HR network and she taught me a lot in the HR field.
When you spoke about your last manager you said, she opened your eyes, what did you mean by that?
Julia: I used to be so hard working, and my manager told me stop focussing on hard working only, let’s be cool, let’s be courageous. She was assertive, she was dominant and present, wore glitter, everyone, especially the male colleagues, were bit sceptical when she came, but has shortly afterwards she gauged a large group of female followers. She was hired with a change mandate, and I learned so much from her, how she presented, how she spoke, her assertiveness.
If any, do you believe there are differences between men and women regarding career planning and development, management style?
Anna: I can absolutely confirm that, in my experience, women are often less assertive, or less self-confident. This always became evident in salary negotiations, women had the tendency to be humbler to come forward to a demand, or to negotiate. Some even questioned that they are valued enough to justify the ask for an increase. And this was different to how men approach salary negotiations. I am not sure why this is the case. Maybe the way women are brought up in many cases. Women have grown up seeing their mothers at home while the father was working, so the classic role segregation. And we still lack role models. I have tried to do this differently. Another thing that comes across when asking for salary expectations. Women often give you a range and men give you a number.
Julia: for me the personality is the key and not the gender or any other dimension of diversity as a matter of fact. I know great male leaders, leaders that are role modelling empathy, team focus and people development. Traits often connected to women. Good leadership traits for me are definitely no micromanagement, clear communication and trust. Which is so important. Just as Anna and I as an example, we have not known each other long, and we started by giving each other just a lot of trust to get us started. There might be slight differences genetically between men and women, but generally I believe it is a question of personality.
Did you make any courageous decisions in your career and what are they?
Julia: my most courageous decision was giving my notice after 15 years. I had a stable job, a good package, safety net, and coming back to age, I am nearly 40 which is an age where you might decide to let things continue because you can expect more to come, roles, recognition and so on. So definitely, resigning without knowing what will come next. But the moment I did that, felt just right. If I would not have 2 children, my life would have surely developed differently, and my CV would look different, I come from Recruitment and HR, and know many companies look for more diversity on the CV, or I could have continued at the same corporation. But the children and that my company did support me during that time, made me stay. And to leave was a gut feeling or gut decision. Actually, I was in a Zen monastery, interesting as Anna was speaking about her pilgrimage..so, I attend a leadership seminar at this monastery and decided there and then that I want to end what was I was my main stressor and it turned out it was my work.
Anna: the most courageous decision for me was for it was surely to start up a company, but it was also the clearest decision. So, for me it is rather clarity then courage. If you know exactly what you want to do. While I took a part time job to secure my living, this is my purpose, the project of my heart. And I love what I do. What is also clear, is purely the fact that there is no one else that steers you, but its only you.
Share your thoughts compatibility of work and family, was that the initiator to come up with heynannyly?
Julia: the message that I want to transmit is- no matter what, don’t forget yourself. Yes, there’s the job, there is the family, but there must be life left over for oneself. And of course, one objective of heynannyly is to give parents more freedom and time. Not only so you can take time off, over the weekend or so, but also smaller things, like taking the time to go to Yoga class, do something for your or as a couple. This often gets lost. We only have one life, we want fun at work, we want to deliver, we want to have happy kids, we want to be happy ourselves, and this is our drive and motivation. To support others, find this freedom.
Just to ask you Julia, as you have children, where were you regarding career and work life balance when you became a mom?
What is interesting is that my career actually took off after I had children. Before I was pregnant, I was HR business partner, reporting to an HR Manager. After my experience with parttime, came back to full time and took this elevated role. One can say, where there is a will there is a way.
Anna: regarding balance- I noticed, I have the best ideas when I am off. So, once you have this understanding, you take time off, a day to let thoughts flow. I also focussed intensely on myself, not only with pilgrimage but also meditation. Yes, I am a workaholic, but I know how to handle this, and how the re-energise. Another way to balance is also working out. If its too much, I put on my running shoes and off I go.
What are your recommendations/tips for career starters; and emerging leaders on the topic of professional life in general; especially on establishing themselves as managers?
Anna: Just do it with a lot of courage.
Julia; If we can do it, so can you.
Any other insights to share:
Julia: we are starting in February with heynannyly in Munich and are open to corporations with companies, with employers. We do not only want to assist parents but give companies a lever to offer good benefits supporting gender equality, assisting working parents, mothers, and fathers.
Thank you Anna and Julia for sharing your story! And wishing you all the best on your quest to help others find their balance with themselves, family and their career journey